The hardness level of steel is determined using a universal scale called the "Rockwell C Test", commonly called the Rockwell hardness scale (HRC). The steel loses some of the chromium in solution for corrosion resistance to form these fine carbides for hardness. It is among the best steel that will offer exceptional toughness while still maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. 14C28N is essentially AEB-L (or perhaps more accurately Sandvik 13C26), but with improved corrosion resistance. I also have meat cleaver 1,4116 ,58RC that I order and was looking up if its a good steel or did waist money and need to return it. LC200N For example, D2 has enough chromium to be stainless (~12%) but its high carbon means that too much chromium carbide is formed to leave enough chromium for stainless levels of corrosion resistance. I would like to see the rating and performance on test of the Chinese Steels, that some people use to say its cheap garbage, like 3Cr13MoV, 4Cr13, 4Cr13Mo, 4Cr14MoV, 5Cr15MoV, 6Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr13MoVCo, 9Cr18MoV, 9Cr19MoV, and the 14cr14MovNB to see if they are similar, worse or better than the steels that they copyi believe we gonna have some good unexpected results. While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. On the other hand, Speed safe assisted opening allows for easy blade deployment with the use of a simple pull back on the ambidextrous flipper. I guess the question is whether toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases. S110V has improved corrosion resistance at the cost of some toughness compared to S90V. I made most of my leather knives from O1v (O1 with .20V) that I hold at 1475 for 15 mins and quench in 120-130 F AAA oil and Kevin Cashen is where those parameters came from btw. Thanks. The knives are ideal for both indoor and outdoor use. Hes already done a three part series on cryogenic treatment: There one of the best reason that he is highly regarded as a knife designer. High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings. it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. Are you okay with that? D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in. Then we could say, e.g. Honestly, yes, because its perfect steel for your knife, besides it depends on which knife, so when youre talking about chef knives, then 14c28n would be an ideal pick thanks to professional corrosion resistance and edge retention. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. [Complete Steel Guide], What is Vg-10 steel?- [Steel Knife Review], The Difference Between 440c steel vs d2: Compared guide, Is 8cr13mov Good Knife Steel [Complete Steel Guide], Amazon Best Sellers in Pocket Knives & Folding Knives. H2 Knives are one of our oldest tools, so it makes sense that they have evolved into thousands of styles since the first person chipped one out of stone. Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel. Toughness is a measure of how much resistance a steel has to fracturing. Been here before? . AEB-L I am particularly interested in researching knife steel, knife properties, and brands. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel. Here its 8. Is 440A really that much better than 420HC, or have you found a narrower gap? Its an update of its 12C27 and 13C26 steels, which were developed for use in shaving razors. Only a skilled blacksmith can make Damascus steels, so they tend to be expensive. Jeff I worked at a company that heat treated D2 (1.55% C) planer blades for a company that built wood working equipment for commercial shops. 14C28N Leek: D2 Leek: jonnymac44 Joined Sep 27, 2007 Messages 7,674 Oct 21, 2008 #2 Hey Michael, First off, the new 14C28N from Sandvik is just now hitting the streets, and I don't have any results just yet for you. See the chart below showing 52100 steel that was overaustenitized (unintentionally) by a knifemaker that sent me specimens for toughness testing. Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? The vivid patterns visible in Damascus steel come from the acid etching process in a ferric chloride solution. 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. Lately Ive been edcing one of those instead of a nice folder. D2 steel Used in knives since at least World War II, 1095 performance varies considerably with an abundance of tweaks in the recipe and heat treat. 1095. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. S35VN The both blade are equally wear resistant. There are a few aspects to your question, I think. Why do knives make the best gifts? Everything you need to know to buy the right knife for the job. On the spreadsheet, youve grouped AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV. Tougher than D2, but less wear-resistant. A proprietary steel and heat treat developed by Busse Knives, INFI is an excellent performer and one of the best steels for big choppers on the market. Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. D2 is a tool steel used in industrial settings. Cookie Notice Hi Jimmie, thanks for your comments. And while youll find it mostly in expensive knives, quite a few approachable M390 blades exist. I reserve the right to change my ratings based on new information. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. What is pulling that line high and to the right? Hit like and all t. Advantages: Toughness, edge retention. Goes to show that science not marketing or conjecture is what determines a good steel, 51shitty? https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. 14c28n vs. D2 Steel D2 is as rigid as 14c28n, thus has almost equal edge retention abilities. On the flip side D2 steel is much harder than other steels in this category such as 154CM or ATS-34 and as a result holds its edge a little better. I have an article that lists off the major mistakes often made in heat treating. Powder metallurgy is a technology designed to maintain a small carbide size. The ultra high corrosion resistance steels Vanax or LC200N max out around 60-61 Rc instead. Quite an eyeopener! High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. first there might have been some annealing going on (even if its was a microscopic level) and the steels might have reacted differently. I've heard d2 is miles better and i dont want to pay 90 for the p135 and get a significantly inferior blade to paying 110 for the D2 Rat. A good quality knife must have sharpness, great edge retention, and a sturdy handle. They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. Flashlights run the gamut of price and quality. I think you wrote an article a bit ago on CTS-XHP and concluded that like D2 and ZDP-189 it wasnt really stainless (although stainless is a somewhat arbitrary line). Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. Ive seen more talk and some articles regarding the use of AI to come up with new potential drug molecules, polymeric materials, etc. The benefit of this, of course, is that the steel holds an edge for a very, very long time. GiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife, Muley Freaks Erik Van Woerkom Charged With Felony Possession of Trophy Mule Deer, The Biggest Improvement to My Camp Kitchen Is a Mini Pizza Oven (But Not for Pizza), Propane Traeger, Moosejaw Coolers, Hybrid HOKAs, Adventure Chess, and More Emerging Gear, Avalanche Outside British Columbia Resort Buries 10, Kills 3 Heli-Skiers, Netflix Unveils First Trailer for Tour de France Series. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. Instead, Vargo titanium uses a unique material called sintered titanium-ceramic alloy. The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. Also how did you arrive at the edge retention & toughness numbers for 8cr13mov and for BD1N toughness? It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. CPM-S90V, CPM-S110V, CPM-10V, and Bohler K390 each fit in this category. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. That said, it's not as tough as many other steels and exponentially tougher to sharpen. The best knife for you should meet your needs and fit your budget. And we list budget-friendly knives that have a professional style and grace to them. Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. Your email address will not be published. It rusts like nothing Ive seen before and it dull just by looking at it. It improves wear resistance and hardenability. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and cant go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. 14C28N steel also has excellent wear resistance due to its high chromium content. Let the job at hand be your guide. This does not predict which knife will cut longer or be more resistant to chipping. This is an old high-carbon (non-stainless) steel. Another common heat treating choice that is not even categorized as a mistake is tempering in the high temperature regime (~1000F) rather than the low temperature regime (~400F). And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%). For example, see the chart below for how much edge retention can change with edge geometry for a single steel (in this case 154CM and CPM-154). Or even if they try to be more open to importance of toughness, the good reputation of the high edge retention steels means that they get inflated toughness ratings along with it. Im looking forward to seeing if it does as well in full production. At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. It has a lower hardness and edge retention as compared to the 9Cr knife. Things are similar with resistance to chipping and edge deformation. Stainless steels usually top out around 64 Rc and may require careful heat treating to get there. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. 14C28N VS D2 Attributes: 14c28n: D2 . Or even a 7 in both categories. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Diving into the pool of knife personalization possibilities is a fantastic way to fend off the post-knife-buy blues. What would be the best deal to use I currently alternate between 20CV S35vn and D2. It is a Sandvik stainless steel that originally developed for razor blades. While not a powder steel, 154CM is widely used in nicer knives. Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. Can you contact me via my email address so I can send you a copy in PDF and epub. Both of those things are no longer an issue as I now have way too many articles and a book. Looks like there is no reason to us it over 420HC. Thats a pretty large difference in two budget steels that are often compared to each other. Most of the midrage ifferings have 14c28n, how does it compare to d2 in your experience? 1060 What it is: 14C28N is a Sandvik stainless steel commonly used in razors and kitchen knives. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. Sandvik 14C28N steel offers excellent corrosion resistance, exceptional toughness, good edge retention, and is easier to sharpen. Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. Combination of knife steel properties. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. When we plot toughness vs edge retention on a log scale instead we get a straight line that is a better visualization of toughness differences. Sign up to receive GearJunkie content direct to your inbox. Im not hating on 80crv2 , Ive used it. Should have a first draft by the end of next week. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. Interesting. Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. and why would anyone want to use it when 420HC looks so much better for a simple stainless steel option. M390 most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. 2. just recently the idea occured tome to sharpen a planer blade like a knife and check out how it performs. In thick forms, like a fixed blade, 1095 isa tough, low-cost steel. This steel is quite corrosion resistant and sharpens easily. Because of their good edge retention, these steels are quite versatile in folders and fixed blades. With a high level ofedge retention, corrosion resistance, and toughness, it does most everything quite well. So setting edge geometry for the type of knife and intended use is very important. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. I measured corrosion resistance of a slightly lower carbon 420 here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. So presumably, wear resistance would be in the 3.5-4 range and toughness in the 5.5-6 range. But in my experience, it has been nothing but great. Where did it come from? This showed that XHP and ZDP-189 have significantly lower corrosion resistance than other stainless steels. But its lightyears ahead of the alternatives, specifically titanium-bladed knives. That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. But if when youre searching for tough steel for your outdoor experience camping, or hunting, it would be perfect steel but not the best choice therere other steels with better than toughness that would suit your usage. 14C28N knives are better than D2 knives in corrosion resistance. D2 steel offers better edge retention and wear resistance than 14C28N. Most production knives are more than thick enough at the edge to accommodate a regrind to significantly improve performance, and its a lot cheaper than buying a new knife a lot of the time. However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. Even it enhances corrosion resistance and wear resistance. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. Thats a little too far, but you get the point.). While quite soft, the metal cuts even when it seems dull because, at the microscopic level, it has a roughness that performs much like a serration. This guide explains important features to consider when buying a new knife for the outdoors. How could it be? and our Opinel Number 9 in carbon steel, and a Cold Steel Tanto Lite in their stainless steel. That provides 14% Chromium and offers excellent corrosion resistance. W-2 Knife Steel Benefiting from 0.2 percent vanadium content, W-2 holds an edge well and is reasonably tough. This is a nitrogen steel that is extremely corrosion-resistant so much so that its used in knives designed to go in salt water, among the most difficult conditions knives are used in. Its high hardness and relatively high toughness also make it an excellent choice in cutlery. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. Damascus or pattern welded steel is a result of combining two steels together. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. Its tough, but thats about it. But which? My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in metallurgy terms. There are so many interactions between them that predictions are difficult without modeling software. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. Lots of information is still specific to this article, however. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Almost all consumer-grade pocket knives, EDC knives, fixed blade knives, etc will be in the range of a Rockwell Hardness rating of 54 to 65 HRC. 8am-5pm Saturday. Knife steel nerds have a great write up on 14c28n nik_was 2 yr. ago I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. SUS410 So, it is quite harder than most other steel variants and retains its edge sharp for a long period. Corrosion is not only cosmetic. 52100 With recommended hardness range of 55-62 HRC; the 14C28N is great for knife applications which place very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance such as chefs knives, hunting knife, pocket knives and fishing knives. and get better and longer-lasting performance? I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. High Alloy Tool Steels and High Speed Steels. The heat treatment techniques used by the manufacturer as well as the design of the blade itself play a huge role in the ultimate outcome of knife performance! To reiterate the clearer part, I wonder if toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases as an edge gets thicker. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. The Kershaw Leek is a most popular EDC knife that design by legendary custom knife maker Ken Onion. 14c28n steel would be a great pick thanks to its high retention and corrosion, it would be great for a normal EDC knife. Unfortunately a high amount of it decreases strength. Its in the same class as Vanadis 8 and 10V. The big difference in properties vs the low alloy steels, however, are the harder carbides that are found in these steels. Most of the discussion of how the ratings were generated, various caveats and details, etc. A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. D2 steel is more durable than 14C28N, but it scores lower in terms of ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance. While 14C28N and D2 are both pretty to look at, buyers always regard one over the other. D2 at 58 hard will cut much more rope than AEB-L at 62. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. The D2 version is heavier and harder, but doesn't cut as smoothly. And for high toughness you want little or no carbide. Choose a factor below to start sorting. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. PESR would be an interesting topic too (also tied to LC200N). Which one is right for you? The steel is similar to Sandviks 13C26. It is an excellent steel that in the right hands has proven to produce high performing blades. We can predict edge retention of a steel within a relatively narrow band based on hardness and carbide volume. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. D2 is not a bad steel, but it has been around a long time and is somewhat mundane by current standards. And before you start arguing on behalf of the steel you think might be perfect, let me remind you that if your knife isnt perfect for a task, youll need to get another one that is! In reality hardly difference. You also reported 8.6 for 440A in that post, compared to 8.5 in this post. Hi there, 14C28N steel is as a result of a more corrosion resistant version of the 13C26 steel.

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